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The news tonight is full of stories about the Christmas eve raid by the NZSAS at the headquarters of Afghan Tiger Group in Kabul in which two Afghan guards were killed, two wounded and dozens of Afghan civilians were terrified. It fills me with rage, and I ask what will it take for us to re-organise and re-engage in anti-war action?

The NZ media are busy saying that the raid was ‘botched’ and ‘ill-advised’ but that the NZSAS and International Security and Assistance Force (ISAF) followed all their protocols.

The reality is that the details of this raid are highly contested by witnesses who were on the ground, including members of the Kabul police. These witnesses are saying that the security guards did not fire first on the soldiers; rather, the soldiers fired first, and murdered two men in cold blood by shooting them in the head.“It was murder,” said Col. Mohammed Zahir, director of criminal investigations for the Kabul police, who arrived at the scene shortly after the raid began and said both victims had been shot in the head.

We should be demanding answers. And we should be demanding that NZ troops get out of Afghanistan now. This attack must be a wake up call for all the good people who marched against the ‘war on terrorism’. The facts are staring us in the face: New Zealand troops are involved in murder in Afghanistan.

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"what will it take for us to

"what will it take for us to re-organise and re-engage in anti-war action?"

Rage won't do it. Democratic organisations with clear policies and a willingness to do the hard work to build a support base might.

Solution idea

"what will it take for us to re-organise and re-engage in anti-war action?"

Offer to drive me into town with an LCD screen, and I'll show John Pilger's new film at a church or somewhere. Educate the masses :-)

Seriously, I'd love to do this. My name really is Jeff Mitchell, by the way.

Wow some people are so

Wow some people are so pathetically gulible, do you believe everything you hear or just select what fits your values. Why not wait and see what actually happened rather than jumping to these naive and juvenile assumptions based on the account of someone who more likely than not was influenced by the Taliban.

In defence of the TALIBAN.

In defence of the TALIBAN.

  Infiltration on the side of


Infiltration on the side of the (grassroots)  people could be a solution.

The black tulip is obviously

The black tulip is obviously a troll, anyway to perma ban?

Why Tangy are you suggesting

Why Tangy are you suggesting a 'perma ban' - are you insane?

Like everyone I have full right (human right) to express my views.My views must get you so heated up you have nothing to say but come up with this.

We all have full rights on this forum to express our views and stand in solidarity with those who have similar beliefs-its just a shame fascists are lurking on this.

I am about Anti-War, Anti-Biotech, Pro Peace/Human/Animal rights and more.If you dont like it, debate it.

sound to me like imperialist

sound to me like imperialist troops get into firefight with lickplate kupapa who sold der souls to b da guardians of big business assets. look like some lickplate kupapa got smoked...

  I agree classwar, nz troops


I agree classwar, nz troops are definitely involved in murder in Afghanistan.That is the only reason in the first place for 'The Defence Industry'.It is set up to murder.

I agree that troops(fools) should get out of Afghanistan less their risk of their being easy targets.

How anyone could get off on war, is beyond me.Those of you who put the Taliban down you  have no right to - it is their country.Also the west use scaremongering tactics to induce fear (the zionist system) so if we hear of one womyn being abused - uninformed people think 'they all must be oppressed'.

The west has so much power it is now distorting people's views.NO 'army'(stupid name) has the right to culturally oppress one culture with their own culture.That is disrespect, and I understand it.


'Tangy'-who cares if someone was influenced by the Taliban?That statement sounds unsupportive.For those of you who criticise and/or fear the Taliban-they fight for their land.I can't stand you western ignoramus's like Tangy here on this forum.

If we dont fight the

If we dont fight the tellybarn they will invade our country and make us eat rice, narn bread and force us to speak their al kader terror language.

I think that pretty much meets the criteria to nuke Av gassistan? Certainly was enough to justify to the general dopeulous for nuking Japan (eating rice and speaking Japanese) back in the day.

Go find another site to troll

Go find another site to troll Black Tulip.


It is clear from your comments supporting the Taliban that you neither value human rights, freedoms and support the repression of woman and base human rights.


Hey BT

BT: If you support the Taliban, you support a world where our daughters are treated like this...

Hey Merry Lentil

There is much sorrow and corruption, my heart is breaking.

There is no excuse for the violation of ANY human right.

We need to remember what the Christians did to redheads, I understand now much of our society's infrastructure is based upon christian values which make up a large part of the 'imperialist system'...ascertaining when and how we bias another's cultural practices is another story.Remember the Taliban are fighting for their land-westerners dont want to lose their pork eating, prostitution riddled, heavy drinking culture.They are disgusting.Just because I look western (pale skin) doesn't mean I subscribe to indoctrinated corruption.Its easy to see it now.The west will protect whatever it is they think is theirs, then make laws and use the media to defy their 'enemy'.Remember soldiers have hurt womyn too.But you are right in one way-religion is dangerous, it can repress people.I like spirituality.OKAY so some of those men in the video have not a single heart between them-it is they who will experience KARMA/RETRIBUTION.

Please,and I have to somehow constantly remind myself,that there are beautiful kind and sincere people out there, be they involved in the Taliban or not.Again I support the Taliban getting their land back, but my support stops there because Im open to ALL faiths/spiritualities.

Those Taliban are not genuine.

If you support the Taliban,

If you support the Taliban, you support a world where our daughters are treated like this...

Two can play that game of fallacies. If you support the US and Britain then you support the actions of its armies


  Char-exactly.The US and UK


Char-exactly.The US and UK are probably responsible for way more war crimes than other people.

  The world stinks of


The world stinks of corruption.Grassroots people/activists need to group and rise up over these forces that oppress.Honestly, who can say the future looks bright.It looks very bleak.

My Plea-PLEASE do what you can with whatever resources you have to overthrow capitalism.WAR PROSTITUTION MEAT INDUSTRY BIOTECH (extremely evil industries and linked together.

The WAR machine is huge-it will take effort to pull it apart but those who feel very ANTI will make it happen.I saw this video a while ago-it made so sad, because these are innocent civilians-brothers, fathers etc.Taken by US terrorists.

I think part of the point of

I think part of the point of governments pandering to the desires of big business is war. You build your war machine by building big industry. Big industry has workers that pay tax, and it also pays tax. The taxes are then funnelled into the war machine which via its perpetual state of war, secures more resources for big business to extend its markets and to extend the lifespan of industry and furthering the international economy.

That is why I think on one hand the government talks democracy, then goes on to support the setting up of corrupt governments in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Indonesia, it supports dictatorships in Saudi Arabia, it supports the US and Britain's killing irregardless of their reasoning being true or not.

It is why this government has supported large scale perpetual wars (like Afghanistan), coup's (Suharto in Indonesia), military interventions and the odd authoritarian regime here and there.

These are to sure up the interests of the international economy and by proxy this countries share in that economy. It is also about the control of oil, the grease which the economy runs on.

The UN came up with a couple of rules that prevent a country from invading another, so the US and Britain came up with the lie of the millenia, the weapons of mass destruction lie, and used in two ways, the first was to impose sanctions on Iraq resulting in the deaths of a half a million children, and then they used the imminent threat lie as grounds to invade Iraq, kill another half a million Iraqi citizens and take over their industries for which oil was the number one industry.

Afghanistan is about keeping the war machine greased. In order to do that you need a perpetual war. Obama came in with his lofty ideas about war and then realised that his countries economy cannot survive without it (giving him the benefit of the doubt).

Supporting the Northern Alliance in its war with the Pastun peoples....or as we have been told - the war against the that war which replaced the cold war farce. It keeps the justification current for the huge UN backed US killing machine. NZ is involved in that war by keeping a stake in it by sending this countries top killers (NZSAS) in there to assist in killing Pastun peoples enmass in their villages.

In the end it didn't matter that it was a lie, Blair and Bush are still walking around, they've got the oil, they secured the northern border of Kuwait, a million murdered in Iraq and a million more in Afghanistan, but thats fine for the NZ Government, where there is big money to be made there are big blindfolds from seeing criminality, and murder by way of mass genocide; there is big forgiveness to the perpetrators of mass murder, mass terrorism, all in order to prop up the international economy and to reserve its seat at the table with the US and Britain.

Contrast that to the way the NZ Government has treated Tuhoe people in the last 3 years when thoughts of independence reached the PMs office - large section of Tuhoe raided, Habeus Corpuse suspended while many were held in their houses under a false house arrest, others were held in the valley under a pseudo hapu area arrest (not to leave this area), others persons were searched without warrants and houses raided just because they were in Te Urewera. That was Helen Clark in 2007, then there was the vetoed return of a half a million acres of stolen Tuhoe land by John Key in 2010.

If this is democracy then they can stick it right up their arse.

George Rangiaho
Ngati Rongo
Te Urewera
Other World

Very informative comment

Very informative comment George,thank you.

I think the difference is

I think the difference is that one was an execution, the other was a mistake. If you don't support the actions of the US in Afghanistan and Iraq then you support Islamic extremism (and its misogyny) and the unstable regime of a dangerous and ruthless dictator.

I think the difference is

I think the difference is that one was an execution, the other was a mistake.

Thats exactly right. If you don't support the right of Imperial Might to make a million or two mistakes per war for oil then you support anti-dualism and are a misogynist.

There is a problem with

There is a problem with Foreign supposedly religious men.They come to the western world and sleep with prostitutes while their wives of whom they abused suffer in poverty back in their countries-so not all so called 'Religious' people are good.

I was told this and I'd believe some of it, but (religious fundamentalism) is also a great evil.

There is good though and we will see that good soon.

  Paula you're just


Paula you're just jealous.

I dont think you should abuse me with labelling me a 'coward'.

I'm a grassroots everyday person intent on helping create a fair/corruption-free/capitalist free society, Paula Walla.

BT, where do you get this

BT, where do you get this ridiculous claim that Afghanistan belongs to the Taliban? The vast majority of the public there do not support them and want to govern themselves, not be governed by a small minority of religous fundamentalists who rule by oppression and fear. I don't think you really have much if any understanding as to who the Taliban are or who the represent, heck most of them are coming in from Pakistan and the middle east and aren't even Afghani's.

And cmon George seriously do not compare the suffering of the Afghani people and American war crimes to the terror raids, thats just pathetic, not to mention laughable given who caused those raids and what they were actually doing. Hardly comparable with innocent civilians murdered by a brutal American war machine, don't insult them or us.

Hi. Sorry no comment being

Hi. Sorry no comment being made. Couple of people asked me if this was my post which it was not. Simon Oosterman

And cmon George seriously do

And cmon George seriously do not compare the suffering of the Afghani people and American war crimes to the terror raids, thats just pathetic, not to mention laughable given who caused those raids and what they were actually doing. Hardly comparable with innocent civilians murdered by a brutal American war machine, don't insult them or us.

I compared the bigotted reaction of the NZ Government to two events....the murder of a million people in Afghanistan for which the NZ Government's response was to dispatch the NZ SAS, this countries number one ask no questions killers, to assist the US and Britain in their continuous war needs, thus making them (the NZ Government and the NZ SAS) complicit with the war crimes perpetrated by the illegal invaders of Afghanistan and by proxy the war crimes committed in their other illegal war, Iraq.

That in my books makes the institution of the NZ Government a terrorist organisation because even by its own laws it is assisting a terrorist organisation in its participation with them to commit mass murder and mass terrorism around the world...

...and secondly (and this is where the bigotry comes into the equation) at-the-same-time attempting to charge people hosted in Te Urewera by the Tuhoe tribe as terrorists, who have not been party to the NZ Government's assisted murders of a million or so people in Iraq and a million more in Afghanistan.

Now, the only one making that comparisson in quotes above about the degree of terrorism afflicted on the victims of the wars overseas and then the victims in Tuhoe is you 'Simon'.

Also your view on who perpetrated the latest raid on the people of Tuhoe are also bigotted, lazy, speculative, naive and insulting on my entire iwi. We've already heard the police state perspective, we don't need a resident police parrot to come repeat to us their views again.

George Rangiaho
Ngati Rongo
Ngai Tuhoe

Black Tulip. Your ramblings

Black Tulip. Your ramblings are becoming increasingly disturbed and detached from any semblance of reality. Take your meds and try and get a consistent and rational grasp of the disparate fragments of ideas you're spouting out like a bung hosepipe. This is supposedly a site for alternative media and politics beyond the mainstream, not a psych ward, but that's what it looks like these days. It's little wonder bugger all of value gets discussed here anymore.

Skys of grey, rivers of red, we must collaborate

Thousands upon thousands of people marched across New Zealand when the War in Afganistan began to represent the millions, nay, billions of people across the world who despise anti-humanitarian millitary operations in foriegn countries, with good reason. When everything was done and said the war carried on anyway, and the results have been terrible, so terrible infact that what little information was been revealed paints so much pain and suffering in the war and strife struck regions of this world that the conspirators have redoubled their efforts to snuff out the opposition to the war. They have marginalised and bent the truth in newcasts, they have made every effort to de-centralise opposition to military operations, they have even created a sensationalistic multimedia industry of video games, movies and mellon-collie documentories to dramitise and instill patriotic heroistic surrealisim into peoples hearts where the real truth of the situation is left under lock and key so as to fill that void, and so as to make lots of secondary income from their exploits and so as to dodge any tangible accountability in the process.

Fill the rest of the airwaves with satire politics, human interest flics, and expose docos about the advancements of technology mixed either of these elements with the "reality" tv formula and you have a world filled with people who are either to stunned to care, too engaged to think for themselves or so mis-informed that they seem to think what a Hollywood star had for brekfast is more important than international corporations taking over all the worlds resources while taking away ones income salary, beneficary or basic need for independant thought or action.

It's the physiological equivilent of brain=damage. Is it any wonder why so many people simply decide to "tune out" of reality given that we are given such a warped and biased version of it on a daily basis? The industrial industry in 2011, backed by the multimedia industry, which feeds from the marginalised news broadcasts, are programming every generation into a false sense of reality and is working, activley, to generate pre-conceptions for everything from our perception of America, Ayrian states their religious beliefs and their political systems AND the reasons and outcomes of military stratedgies.

In short, it's a capitalisitically funded propoganda fueld machine that's shielding the military operations of a curropt and destructive industrial corporate network that is bent on making as much money as possible, globally, with no considerations for human life, or eviromental destruction.

Any scares conserning economic meltdown does not concern this network because they are pretty much now in control of EVERYTHING. besides of course the networks of the opposing alliances, and those who are seperated in the yet exploited, remote regions of the earth.

The opposing alliances are the cause for war, the fight for those resources and the effort to win the cheap labour of workforce from the people in foriegn countries in order to push those networks out into the resources of different states rich in fossil fuel and precious minerals is the major reason why people are killing one another now, in many places however, this very detail becomes submerged in a torrent of ideologies and ignorances fueling more conflict and suffering, simply for the sake of opposing a centralised system of control which has a bad rap. It's hard to tell whether a controlling body or goverment is doing a good job when they are not honest with all the facts, when they cannot accept accountability for the responsibilities of the place in which they have taken, to be fair honest and open with the very people they are supposed to be working for.

Reconcillation must come from all levels, down to the farmer to the head of state to the corporate network that presently believes that it is the "neccesary evil" of the world. All the countries of the world must be independant in success, and unified in crisis. That means making the most of what they have, and helping those who have little. Without a system of accountability and support for one another of all races, creeds, and institutions, without a basic foundation based on basic scientific truth without the rhetoric and monetary scaremongering, there will be nothing but dark days ahead.

To change the situation, there must be reconcilliation on all levels. From the farmers, the demonstators, the protestors the fundimentalists and the extremists --- the entire social pre-existing, handed down and commercially gained mis-conception that there is any decent reasoning for conflict needs to change.

This needs to be addressed with the multimedia industry, the commidities and industries investment program, the political stature on informations acts, the religious centers and in school, everywhere. it needs to be addressed on all levels because like a bad virus, the reasoning that millitary operations and enviromental desecration can be rationalised and that ideology "that this is the way it must be because this is the way it's always been" is fundimentally WRONG.

That's what it would take to stop our kids being killed in the war.


Feel free to reply and yeah I know this statement needs work before posting to all corners of the earth but let me know and I will consider your thoughts for consideration and free speech are a couple of the keys neccesary to fix this mess up, no? Think Positive - Collaborate - Act Together


the socially pre-existing, handed down and capatalistically exaulted mis-conception that there is any decent reasoning for VIOLENT conflict and for human suffering through the likes of trade barriers resulting in starvation and prejudice needs to change.


there should be a world wide amendum for a ceasefire of all military operations. but how can we even write one when nobody can keep track of all the fire?

time for a major redesign, and some consideration for those greener solutions.

  Hey I really enjoyed


Hey I really enjoyed reading this well thought out comment.